| Author | Message | ||
     Bill Santos (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: c-24-61-17-240.hsd1.ma.comcast.net |
I found a story done 10-20-09 titled "Alleged hit man changes appearance, FBI says" on CNN concerning one of the FBI's "Top Ten" most wanted list -- Sorry, I was unable to post an external link as a guest -- and there was a short comment concerning fingerprint manipulation: "Eduardo Ravelo has undergone plastic surgery, manipulated his fingerprints, authorities say..." I don't know if it's possible for fingerprint manipulation via plastic surgery or other (alleged)definitive means, but irregardless, it should be illegal. Is it illegal? Are there any laws on the books, either federally or state, that prohibit the changing of fingerprints? I'm sure if you tried to fool law enforcement with fake prints and you were caught, there must be some law(s) broken. | ||
| guest Gino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: adsl-75-35-246-127.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net |
I have been reading these post and believe that most people are attempting to manipulate the law, which should not be the case in this discussion. However, I made a mistake when I was 20, now I am 30 and finding it very difficult to gain employement. I am in the trucking business and most companies require fingerprinting. Although no one in thier right mind would want to endeavor this type of procedure; I have been faced with difficult challenges moving past my 1 and only mistake. It is unfair that mylife is limited due to a mistake I made before I was matured. I am now faced with another fingerprinting company and would like to know what the legal limitations are for who they search through. What type of records are searched? If there is any reccomendations that anyone has? Thank You very much for all your information and exciting post. Gino | ||
| Michele Triplett (michele_triplett) Member Username: michele_triplett Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think the answer is different for every agency. For example, if you're a teacher and you need to get your prints taken as a state requirement then your prints will be searched at the state level and fbi level. They may be searched against any latents in either of those data bases, but wouldn't be searched through other states, city, or county data bases. If you're being fingerprinted for some other reason (in my area taxi cab drivers are fingerprinted) then these prints are searched through our local county data base (against known prints and latent prints) before they are registered into our system and sent on for a state search. | ||
| jon michelle (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: bas13-toronto12-1167985932.dsl.bell.ca |
When someone has their fingerpints taken for non criminal purposes(eg. employment)are they checked only against known criminal ten prints - or are they also checked against unsolved latents? Checking against latents would seem like a great way of finding criminals who do not have a criminal record. If they do or don't can someone please provide me an answer. | ||
| melissa Blumenthal |
I am a type 1 diabetic and do testing 3-4 times a day on my finger tips.I have been doing this for 11 years since the diagnosis. Sometimes my fingers become bruised and callouse. Does this affect fingerprints? | ||
| Jake |
I have a friend that claims to have changed his fingerprints through a chemical burn using purified hydrogen peroxide. Anybody have any info on whether or not this would work? I am sure that it would burn deep enough to remove the ridges, but I am not sure if the later resulting prints would be any different than the originals | ||
| Kasey Wertheim |
Michael, In our field, we have a phrase called "indipendent verification". I guess Steve and I were typing our replies at the same time, and both said basically the same thing. That holds more weight than one of us answering and the other saying it is correct. So now you have it from the mouth of two horses... fingerprint mutilation would probably not be the smartest endeavor; it would almost be as stupid as committing crime in the first place.  So to you and everyone else who reads this... Stay good... -Kasey | ||
| Steve |
The palm print won't tell you anything about the fingerprint patterns, but as fingerprints can be used for identification so can the palm prints. The fingerprint patterns never change as a result of natural causes, outside of the physical growth process and the subsequent spatial enlargement. Kasey Wertheim did a case study of a case of fingerprint mutilation whereas the person made a "Z" shaped incision in the tip of the finger, then swapped the position of the "flaps" of skin. Of course this was discovered and the person was identified. | ||
| Kasey Wertheim |
Michael, To answer your questions, fingerprint patterns can not be reconstructed by examining palm prints. Patterns do not change with age, stress, etc. I have noticed a trend in your posts toward "altering" fingerprints. I have researched and examined the fingerprints in about 30 cases of permanent intentional fingerprint mutilation. These cases include everything from Roscoe Pitts (mentioned in a previous post) who had a surgeon sew his raw finger tips to flaps of skin on his side, to John Dillinger who had his doctor carve out portions of his fingerprint patterns and pour sulfuric acid in the depressions, to other lesser known criminals. Donald Roquierre cut circles in the middle of each finger, removed the resulting skin (deep down to include the basal layer of skin where fingerprints form), turned the circles upside down and replaced them on different fingers. He sewed them on with a needle and thread. Others have tried tattoo needles, cigarette lighters, cigarettes (burning over and over), and the list goes on and on. Recently, a plastic surgeon has cut a "Z" shaped incision and switched triangles within each of the 10 fingers of several Mexican nationals living illegally in the United States. But in NONE of these cases... I repeat NONE of these cases, has the person performing the mutilation remained undiscovered by law enforcement. To quote Roscoe Pitts: "If I knew then what I knew now, I never would have gone through with it... I did not know something like this would challenge police and that they would move heaven and earth to identify a man with no fingerprints." Dillinger's fingerprint mutilation was discovered after FBI agents gunned him down at the famous theater in Chicago. The fingerprints of the illegal immigrants were discovered when they were arrested and deported. The fingerprints of one of the individuals were reconstructed, his original identity was discovered, and he is serving 30 years in Florida for drug charges. Each case I found has such an ending, so pass on the word to THINK TWICE about such a procedure. You are simply making yourself stand out more, and your fingerprints become even more unique than if you left them alone. | ||
| Michael Rothschild |
Thank you for your answers. More questions arise... If someone has altered their fingerprints can an expert determine the exact patterns of the original print by analyzing the palm print? Do the patterns in fingerprints ever change with age, stress, climate or any other natural factors? | ||
| David Fairhurst |
I know the question was what is the EASIEST way but completely burning off the skin so that it has to be repaired by a graft from another part of the body would at least leave you with some use of your hands Of course we are all assuming that Michael wants to change his fingerprints to such an extent that they cannot be matched to any he has on record. Maybe he's a body artist and just wants to make small changes for cosmetic reasons. In which case a razor blade or surgical scalpel could be used to cut out discs of skin which could be removed, rotated and reinserted upside down to create very peculier patterns which may be easier to identify subsequently | ||
| Steve |
Good point, but since we know that the ridge detail extends beyond the fingers to the palms, I thought I'd save a little needless pain (I'm sure Roscoe Pitts would know what I'm talking about!) | ||
| Ernie Hamm |
Michael didn't ask about the palm prints! I was only thinking of cutting off the fingers, not quite as drastic!!! | ||
| Steve |
Amputation at the wrist. | ||
| Michael Rothschild |
What is the easiest way to alter fingerprints? |
